Comments on: Hardy’s View About Love http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com Just another WordPress.com weblog Tue, 11 Sep 2007 05:07:13 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-193 sixthperiod Mon, 10 Sep 2007 09:20:52 +0000 #comment-193 Kristen, Oh no, of course we have to analyze the characters! I'll clarify. What I mean is, you can't attatch a specific archetype to any of these people. Eustacia is not "the bad one" and Wildeve is not " the unfaithful husband" They have numerous dimensions that have to be picked apart. It's the same with human beings. Just because we're all in AP, that doesn't make us "the smart ones." Sure, we are ;-) but we're so much more. I like gaming and poetry and philosophy, you like cheer (and for some reason you like Ryan...haha jkjk), Hayley likes theatre, Christine likes dance. But none of these things define us. It's everything rolled into one. It makes for very interesting characters whose actions are a consequence of true human nature as fragile and malleable while stubborn and steadfast. ~ Jeremy Thompson ** ** Mr. Awesome Kristen,

Oh no, of course we have to analyze the characters! I’ll clarify. What I mean is, you can’t attatch a specific archetype to any of these people. Eustacia is not “the bad one” and Wildeve is not ” the unfaithful husband” They have numerous dimensions that have to be picked apart. It’s the same with human beings. Just because we’re all in AP, that doesn’t make us “the smart ones.” Sure, we are ;-) but we’re so much more. I like gaming and poetry and philosophy, you like cheer (and for some reason you like Ryan…haha jkjk), Hayley likes theatre, Christine likes dance. But none of these things define us. It’s everything rolled into one. It makes for very interesting characters whose actions are a consequence of true human nature as fragile and malleable while stubborn and steadfast.

~ Jeremy Thompson **

** Mr. Awesome

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-194 sixthperiod Mon, 10 Sep 2007 03:29:07 +0000 #comment-194 Hayley hit one of the most important points that can be presented here. The definition of love. If someone can give a definition without any other being able to critique it, look out for the rapture. Nevertheless, no couplet in this book were truly in love. Wildeve and Eustacia were driven by desire of the unattainable as mentioned before. Clym's love of Eustacia was for her body, her personality, perhaps even her cunning mind, but certainly not for her soul or true self (whatever you want to call it) no one who knew Eustacia to her core could love her. She never loved Clym either, just the images and dreams he brought to her mind. Wildeve never cared deeply for Thomasin (do I really need to name the examples?) Messed up the marriage license. Didn't give her money. Was more interested in being with Eustacia. Named their child after his ex. (who the Heck does that???) And Thomasin all but admits to marrying Wildeve out of necessity in order to preserve her reputation. I cannot even vouch for Venn and Thomasin's marriage as a love connection. She rejected him once before and didn't give a rip about him til the end. I think she was just happy to have someone again, and after the way Wildeve treated her, she felt good being doted on. She's filthy rich. I'll give you 100 to 1 odds she leaves him and marries Christian Cantle. All he'd have to do is smile at her. They'll both move to Amsterdam so Christian can gamble away their entire savings... JK ~ Jeremy Thompson ** ** Mr. Awesome Hayley hit one of the most important points that can be presented here. The definition of love. If someone can give a definition without any other being able to critique it, look out for the rapture. Nevertheless, no couplet in this book were truly in love. Wildeve and Eustacia were driven by desire of the unattainable as mentioned before. Clym’s love of Eustacia was for her body, her personality, perhaps even her cunning mind, but certainly not for her soul or true self (whatever you want to call it) no one who knew Eustacia to her core could love her. She never loved Clym either, just the images and dreams he brought to her mind. Wildeve never cared deeply for Thomasin (do I really need to name the examples?) Messed up the marriage license. Didn’t give her money. Was more interested in being with Eustacia. Named their child after his ex. (who the Heck does that???) And Thomasin all but admits to marrying Wildeve out of necessity in order to preserve her reputation. I cannot even vouch for Venn and Thomasin’s marriage as a love connection. She rejected him once before and didn’t give a rip about him til the end. I think she was just happy to have someone again, and after the way Wildeve treated her, she felt good being doted on.

She’s filthy rich. I’ll give you 100 to 1 odds she leaves him and marries Christian Cantle. All he’d have to do is smile at her. They’ll both move to Amsterdam so Christian can gamble away their entire savings…
JK

~ Jeremy Thompson **

** Mr. Awesome

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-113 sixthperiod Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:58:35 +0000 #comment-113 Concerning Eustacia and Wildeve, I do not think the two were in love at all. They only wanted each other when they couldn't have each other. Part of love is wanting to be with the beloved. I think they were both bored and were attracted to each other enough to sleep with each other and pretend like they loved each other. Hardy wrote that Eustacia wanted "to be loved to madness." Perhaps he was trying to demonstrate this desire at the beginning of the novel by placing her in the arms of an extraordinarily average man. As for Damon, he only wanted her when he was not supposed to have her, and that is adolescent infatuation, not love. The author remarks, "The old longing for Eustacia had reappeared in his soul; and it was mainly because he had discovered that it was another man's intention to possess her" (Hardy 194). He asked another woman to marry him when he could have had her for goodness sake. I think Hardy was trying to show Eustacia's desperation through her fling with Wildeve, as well as create a convenient vehicle for later conflict. -Hayley W. Concerning Eustacia and Wildeve, I do not think the two were in love at all. They only wanted each other when they couldn’t have each other. Part of love is wanting to be with the beloved. I think they were both bored and were attracted to each other enough to sleep with each other and pretend like they loved each other. Hardy wrote that Eustacia wanted “to be loved to madness.” Perhaps he was trying to demonstrate this desire at the beginning of the novel by placing her in the arms of an extraordinarily average man. As for Damon, he only wanted her when he was not supposed to have her, and that is adolescent infatuation, not love. The author remarks, “The old longing for Eustacia had reappeared in his soul; and it was mainly because he had discovered that it was another man’s intention to possess her” (Hardy 194). He asked another woman to marry him when he could have had her for goodness sake. I think Hardy was trying to show Eustacia’s desperation through her fling with Wildeve, as well as create a convenient vehicle for later conflict.

-Hayley W.

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-109 sixthperiod Sun, 09 Sep 2007 20:36:42 +0000 #comment-109 Jeremy, I understand what your saying about ovreanalyzing the characters, about how they portray the indecisiveness of mankind, but isn't the whole point of the blog to analyze the characters. True, maybe labeling each as "good" and "bad" is not what Mr. Green meant, but I still think its good to pick apart each character. Or is that not what you meant? -Kristen Jeremy,

I understand what your saying about ovreanalyzing the characters, about how they portray the indecisiveness of mankind, but isn’t the whole point of the blog to analyze the characters. True, maybe labeling each as “good” and “bad” is not what Mr. Green meant, but I still think its good to pick apart each character. Or is that not what you meant?

-Kristen

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-91 sixthperiod Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:12:14 +0000 #comment-91 I did have one other thing to say that isn't on topic, but... I dont' care. Seth, you said that Venn freaked you out by being the red commando of the night. haha. I thought it was cool of course, but it was also very "in character" for him. I mean, he spent the majority of his time alone on the road. While he developed patience and cautiousness, he certainly didn't have much of a chance at learning conflict resolution techniques. Not to mention, the worst moment of his life was confronting Thomasin with a marriage proposal and being rejected. He's just not very good at talking to people like that. Also, he probably didn't want people to know for sure, that it was him. I mean, thats the whole point in not telling Tamsie that he was helping her, right? Operating in secret was necessary and easier for him. It's his way of doing things. Not to mention it was fun I'm sure. Who wouldn't want to paint themselves red and go around tripping the people they didn't like...and take all their money in a game of yazee? (sp?) ~ Jeremy Thompson ** ** Mr. Awesome I did have one other thing to say that isn’t on topic, but… I dont’ care. Seth, you said that Venn freaked you out by being the red commando of the night. haha. I thought it was cool of course, but it was also very “in character” for him. I mean, he spent the majority of his time alone on the road. While he developed patience and cautiousness, he certainly didn’t have much of a chance at learning conflict resolution techniques. Not to mention, the worst moment of his life was confronting Thomasin with a marriage proposal and being rejected. He’s just not very good at talking to people like that. Also, he probably didn’t want people to know for sure, that it was him. I mean, thats the whole point in not telling Tamsie that he was helping her, right? Operating in secret was necessary and easier for him. It’s his way of doing things. Not to mention it was fun I’m sure. Who wouldn’t want to paint themselves red and go around tripping the people they didn’t like…and take all their money in a game of yazee? (sp?)

~ Jeremy Thompson **

** Mr. Awesome

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-88 sixthperiod Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:05:55 +0000 #comment-88 Thank you for hinting on that seth. Did no one else find this novel disturbing because for once people acted like...real people?? I mean we had the stereotypical minor characters and the stern but caring mother type. But I mean, the way the characters' thoughts were spilled out onto the page reflected the genuine indecisiveness of humankind. As much as I hate that little.....Eustaica, she and Wildeve are more human than any of the others. Love is never as pure and whole as it is seen in the many mediums of our time. It is subtle and even brittle at times, likely to break at a sudden burden...or even endure when it shouldn't. I could almost (not completely, but almost) identify with Wildeve and how he was unable to decide on one woman. Not that I'm like that. I'm not like that. It's just. Umm, it's difficult to measure your feelings for different people. You can't read the book and label these characters as "good" and "bad." They're people. And while they may be right and wrong at different times. They're human... And by the way, I'm not a pimp... just to clear that up... ~ Jeremy Thompson ** ** Mr. Awesome Thank you for hinting on that seth. Did no one else find this novel disturbing because for once people acted like…real people?? I mean we had the stereotypical minor characters and the stern but caring mother type. But I mean, the way the characters’ thoughts were spilled out onto the page reflected the genuine indecisiveness of humankind. As much as I hate that little…..Eustaica, she and Wildeve are more human than any of the others. Love is never as pure and whole as it is seen in the many mediums of our time. It is subtle and even brittle at times, likely to break at a sudden burden…or even endure when it shouldn’t. I could almost (not completely, but almost) identify with Wildeve and how he was unable to decide on one woman. Not that I’m like that. I’m not like that. It’s just. Umm, it’s difficult to measure your feelings for different people. You can’t read the book and label these characters as “good” and “bad.” They’re people. And while they may be right and wrong at different times. They’re human… And by the way, I’m not a pimp… just to clear that up…

~ Jeremy Thompson **

** Mr. Awesome

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-86 sixthperiod Sun, 09 Sep 2007 17:27:04 +0000 #comment-86 urgh. disagreement. I do agree that Venn is selfless (either I've always thought this or you just convinced me of it) and he is the most moral character in the novel (Clym's ignorance cancels whatever good morality he had so he does not count). I just did not want this discussion to get too one-sided on how amazing Venn was because I think that he could have been even more admirable had he first confronted Wildeve with the issue. (note: I don't think Wildeve would have changed, but this jesture would have been honorable) In the sick, twisted world of the heath (that much resembles ours) even the most moral character has a flaw - this blunt realism connects the novel to reality. In the "real world" no one is perfect, and Hardy's lack of a perfect character connects his novel to the reader. This in turn has something to do with his view of love, I'm sure, because that is the title of this page. seth urgh. disagreement. I do agree that Venn is selfless (either I’ve always thought this or you just convinced me of it) and he is the most moral character in the novel (Clym’s ignorance cancels whatever good morality he had so he does not count). I just did not want this discussion to get too one-sided on how amazing Venn was because I think that he could have been even more admirable had he first confronted Wildeve with the issue. (note: I don’t think Wildeve would have changed, but this jesture would have been honorable) In the sick, twisted world of the heath (that much resembles ours) even the most moral character has a flaw – this blunt realism connects the novel to reality. In the “real world” no one is perfect, and Hardy’s lack of a perfect character connects his novel to the reader. This in turn has something to do with his view of love, I’m sure, because that is the title of this page.

seth

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-66 sixthperiod Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:53:17 +0000 #comment-66 I have to disagree with you seth. I agree with alyssa in that diggory venn has a selfless nature. True, it was kind of creepy that he was always following everyone around, but he had good intentions. He tried to fix certain situations without directly calling the characters out on their own dishonesty and adultery. For example, when diggory gambled with wildeve to get thomasin's money back. He never just outright tells widleve to stop gambling or lusting after eustaica or whatever, but he courageously attmepts to win thomasin's money back, not because he was going to keep it, but because he wanted to see thomasin happy......yet another example of his selflessness. I have to disagree with you seth. I agree with alyssa in that diggory venn has a selfless nature. True, it was kind of creepy that he was always following everyone around, but he had good intentions. He tried to fix certain situations without directly calling the characters out on their own dishonesty and adultery. For example, when diggory gambled with wildeve to get thomasin’s money back. He never just outright tells widleve to stop gambling or lusting after eustaica or whatever, but he courageously attmepts to win thomasin’s money back, not because he was going to keep it, but because he wanted to see thomasin happy……yet another example of his selflessness.

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-61 sixthperiod Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:09:49 +0000 #comment-61 Interesting. comment 5 is mine (seth's) as well *cough* mr. green *cough* A note on Diggory's secrecy ... it freaks me out. If I was in the wrong, such as Eustacia or Wildeve, (yet unlike them had a desire to become in the right) I would not want some freaky red guy following me around at night shooting at me with a gun or tripping me with tree roots. Though his intentions are good (aren't they always) Diggory (in my opinion, thus you cannot say i'm wrong because it is not a fact) takes too much of an active/though secret role in the affairs of others and comes across as deceiving. Unless I'm forgetting it, Diggory never outright approaches Wildeve about his affair with Eustacia, and this decision to skip the open and move right along to the secret - to me (after all morality may be relative, i'm not absolutely sure, so no reason to assume either way) - is dishonest. seth Interesting. comment 5 is mine (seth’s) as well *cough* mr. green *cough*

A note on Diggory’s secrecy … it freaks me out.
If I was in the wrong, such as Eustacia or Wildeve, (yet unlike them had a desire to become in the right) I would not want some freaky red guy following me around at night shooting at me with a gun or tripping me with tree roots. Though his intentions are good (aren’t they always) Diggory (in my opinion, thus you cannot say i’m wrong because it is not a fact) takes too much of an active/though secret role in the affairs of others and comes across as deceiving. Unless I’m forgetting it, Diggory never outright approaches Wildeve about his affair with Eustacia, and this decision to skip the open and move right along to the secret – to me (after all morality may be relative, i’m not absolutely sure, so no reason to assume either way) – is dishonest.

seth

]]> By: sixthperiod http://sixthperiod.wordpress.com/return-of-the-native/about/#comment-60 sixthperiod Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:03:00 +0000 #comment-60 Does that count as two "blog entries?" I do think that Hardy sees love as a game, yet in almost contradiction Hardy (though the character Diggory) shows that steadfast "real" love is rewarded. Does he view LOVE as a game or he is simply stating a fact about the human condition to often twist virtues (ie LOVE) and play games with them? seth Does that count as two “blog entries?” I do think that Hardy sees love as a game, yet in almost contradiction Hardy (though the character Diggory) shows that steadfast “real” love is rewarded. Does he view LOVE as a game or he is simply stating a fact about the human condition to often twist virtues (ie LOVE) and play games with them?

seth

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